WotLK Arena, BG, World PvP Başlığı

[Wispy]

Dostum critter'a attığım en büyük ambush 10k. Mutilate'le 8k ambush da iyiymiş cidden.
Tamam oyunda burst yüzünden denge yok ama abartmayalım.

[Cuce]

bana 4k 4k cok rahat critliyo muti, 420 resi var ustumde, kaedeyede 8k vuruyodur cok rahat aramızda %50 dmg red farkı var armordan.

[Kaede]

İsmi stealthlink ti sanırsam. Bir bak istersen armoryden human rogue.

[Wispy]

Aranızda 50% dmg reduction farkı olması için Cüce'nin 24k armorlu prot warrior, kaede'nin 2k armorlu priest olması lazım yalnız : )

[Cuce]

ole yiz zaten, bende %64 var onda innerfire'la 4kusur k armor falan sanırım, bide ben %100 block value %100 block ratele blockluyorum %10 dmg reduction alıyorum vs vs.

[Wispy]

Tükürdüğümün interneti yüzünden 2 maçta dc olup yarım saat sonra modem resetlerden sonra 2 maçta daha dc olup 80 puan kaybettim ya. OFFFFFFFFFFFF

[Masquerade]

Welcome to the Jungle Turkey. :P

[Wispy]

Biz üçüncü dünya ülkesi diliz ne diyorsun sen masakara !!11

[Masquerade]

:( BlizzCons da bizi görecek mi

[Masquerade]

Geniş bir post atmış Blizzard PvP durumu için;

Burst damage in Arenas

Totally agree that the matches like you are describing can involve a lot of skill. But we also heard from plenty of players during the heydey of maxed out resilience that they felt like they couldn't compete because pure damage dealing wasn't of much use in an Arena. Instead, every class was asking for CC, counter CC, ways to close the gap, ways to interrupt or silence, etc. Damage itself was devalued. Even today you can see players who are glad to no longer have 20+ minute Arenas that feel more like chess matches.

Things may be too bursty now, but I think we've also been in a state where CC'ing or draining the healer was basically the whole game too. I think there is a sweet spot somewhere, but I didn't want players to think that was a very different place than what we thought. (Source)

Resilience and burst damage

It is hard to nail the sweet spot on Arena balance, and what that sweet spot is depends a lot on what role you play. At times players have felt that they couldn't prevent someone from healing, which turns the entire fight into mana draining, silence and crowd control, since nobody ever dies. Damage-dealers were frustrated because they felt like just beating on someone (which their entire spec may have been designed around) was ineffective. Currently, the opposite is true, where players can be beaten down very quickly and healers tend to wonder why they should even bother trying to heal.

Resilience will make a difference - remember that not only is PvP gear itemized for resilience, but it uses up points that would normally be spent on +dps. The defenses are not only higher, but the offenses are lower. Furthermore, once players can survive for a few seconds, it tends to force everyone to worry about defenses once again. Will resilience make enough of a difference? That is something we are discussing right now.

We hear and understand all of the concerns. I don't have any announcements to make of changes at this time, and honestly changes of the magnitude we're talking would not be the kind of thing I would just casually drop as an answer to a forum thread like this. But we do hear you.

[...] While that was true to an extent, if you look at the Lich King PvP gear, you'll see that it pays a higher price for resilience. In previous seasons, you could get very high dps and resilience on the same set of gear. That is harder to do now. Rogues, like everyone else, will be risking being very fragile if they go with all PvE gear for the damage. That isn't happening now because very few people have much PvP gear. Once players can survive a few hits, then players without resilience are going to go down quickly.

(Weapons are an exception to this, at least for now.)

Again, I'm not saying that burst damage won't still be too high. That is something we're looking at. (Source)

Arenas and skill measurement

We like Arenas, and clearly a lot of players do too. What we don't like about them is they really put class balance under a microscope. Ultimately we'd like to see the pendulum on PvP swing back a little closer to Battlegrounds and even world PvP. We think the BGs actually encompass the story of Warcraft (which is essentially Horde vs. Alliance) much better than do the Arenas.

Where the Arena currently beats the pants off the BG is that we can detect player skill much better in an Arena. That in turn allows us to offer the best loot to the best players. BG rewards by contrast have traditionally felt very grindy.

We do have some plans to change all of that. We don't have any intention of getting rid of Arenas for players that do enjoy that sort of gameplay. But we also want to give other players alternatives to still be able to get great rewards.

[...] Class certainly has an effect on the outcome, which is why it is subject to such scrutiny. At the same time, I think there is something interesting to the whole comp strategy. I think we'd lose something if you could get any 3 random people together. I'm not saying certain classes should be doomed to failure. I'm saying who you get for your third should mean something.

You actually feel that you can determine "skill" in an unbalanced RNG based game?
Within the limitation of the tools, yes I think we can. You're talking down to an awful lot of gladiators out there if your argument is that they just picked the right class or got lucky with the RNG.

If I took say a rogue-mage-priest team at the height of its power and played a team with the same gear and comp, I don't think the outcome would be 50/50 every time. If I took my team and played the best team in the world, I would expect to get stomped. That's skill. (Source)

Crowd Control

CC isn't a bad concept. But damage isn't a bad concept either. We designed quite a few specs to focus on dealing damage, and when they don't think that's effective, they get just as grumpy (and understandably so) and feel like their spec needs some new tool to shut down the healer.

I'm not talking about the state of S5 specifically or the S2-S4 for that matter. I'm just saying that in general there should be a place for crowd control and for healing and for silencing and mana drain and also just plain killing someone. (Source)

Talent builds

We design the talent trees with specific builds in mind. We'll slide things up and down to make them more or less attractive to various cross-spec strategies.

Players rarely surprise us with builds. When they do it's something like the Holy paladin that goes all the way down Ret but intends to heal like Holy, or the Elemental shaman who goes very deep in Enhancement.

I should say players rarely surprise us with builds but they surprise us all the time in general. (Source)

Arena Matchmaking

My point was that when the matchmaking is working well, it will pit you against players very close to your skill level. Playing players very close to your skill level increases the chance you will lose. The point is actually not to have the 2000+ players mowing their way through scrubs. It's to pair off the best teams against each other so that getting e.g. Gladiator means something.

What I was actually getting at though was a loftier sentiment that players run through quests or an instance and one-shot everything and then go into PvP and can lose a lot. It's a very different experience, and psychologically I think it affects players more than they give it credit for. (If you are highly-ranked or don't even play PvE much then it likely affects you a lot less.) (Source)

Class balancing and player's feedback

It is challenging to compare our numbers to those that come up from the community. Since I have been doing this gig, there have been plenty of times when players will say "Yeah, we figured X was overpowered," but that is almost immediately followed by "but the nerfs were too much." I have honestly yet to see more than one or two players ever agree that the magnitude of a nerf (any nerf) was justified. I'm just sayin.

We have to rely on our testing more than the community. That's just the way it has to work. Your numbers, however, are a useful reality check. In situations where the community consistently finds different numbers, we might go check our numbers again. We will do so in this case.

Something else worth pointing out is the whole concept of "your mileage may vary." Not every player has the same timing, gear, situational awareness or even rotation. In many cases our calculations are based on the higher ends of the spectrum -- the damage potential generated by the best players in ideal situations. For a class like the hunter that does require a fairly high amount of skill to master that may mean that your damage didn't drop as much (because you weren't using a technique that the experts were using to coax every bit of dps out of their attacks) or your damage may drop a lot more (because the experts are able to switch to other sources of damage more readily than a less skilled player).

All I'm saying is that WoW isn't such a simple game that a 10% buff or nerf done on our end will automatically result in a 10% buff or nef for every player out there in every situation. (Source)

[Kaede]

Güzel açıklama olmuşta şu baştaki "eskiden cc,drain oyunuydu şimdi burst oyunu olsa ne olur" ima eden sözler biraz sıkıntı verdi bana.

[Cuce]

cok ole degilde, eskiden cc drain burstten onemliydi, dmg dealerla duduk kalıyodu, simdi dengeli olsun istiyoruz demek istemiş.

tabi bunun dengesini tutturmak zor.

[Helcaraxe]

resilience gitsin iş bitsin :D eskiden bi mantığı vardı warrioru yanına sokmicaaaydın yoksa 2-3 hitte yatırıordu , şimdi adam sana crit bile vuramıo doğru düzgün :( biraz işkembeden de salladım ama olsun :D

[Cuce]

Hurra ms vuruyorum dk ya critliyo hemde mace specle hemde 2-3 sunder armorlanmıs dk ya veeeeee... 1k dmg!
ice bardedla da 1k vuruyodumki ben.

arms'la bekleki sudden death acılsın.

neyse konu warrior'ın hali degil. Bazı classlar ozellikle rogue'lar su anda combatın combat kısmına zaman bırakmıyor, trinket mirinket bahane, armssam zaten anında yatıyorum. protsam cıkıyorum stundan bi kapısr gibi oluyoruz ama masallah adamlar artık dismantle'la sadece silahı degil kalkanıda dusuruyor, gidiyo armor'ın migitation'ın yarısı, dmg'ın yarısından fazlası 5sn bakıyorum bole adama. Thunderclap falan atıyorum sonra oluyorum.

devlerin "dmg dealerlar anlamsız kaldı onlarda seker yiyebilsinler" fikrine katılyorum acıkcası. Sorun suki bi dmg dealer rogue'lar boomkinler hunterlar ve arcane mageler degil (ilginctirki bu 4'lu arasındaki en tırt kalan yine arcane mage su anda)

[Wispy]

Rogue'un dismantle'ımı rahtsız etti ? Ben 5cp eviscerate koyacakken druide warriordan disarm çok yedim be cüce. Bu kadar mı rahatsız etti bir ability'i paylaşmak ?

Eski riposte ayrı saçmalık değil miydi, aaa disarm yedim 10 sn sword&board takılayım 10 sn sonra zaten 2hand dönüp ağzına tükürürm rogue demeyi mi özlediniz.

Shield Wall aldınız arenada, arenanın her bracket'ında oyun döndürecek bir ability. Daha ne istiyorsunuz ?

Clos'um doğru düzgün çalışmıyor, spell hit artık 90% resist şansını düşürüyor. Vanish işe yaramıyor. Shadowstep interceptten her türlü daha kötü bir ability hem de trainable değil.

Her class'ın ağlanacak çok şeyi vardır eminim.

[Cons]

abi prot warrior nası rogue kesemez ya damage shield filan

[Longshanks]

prot warrior rogue keser de, şu an arms warrior çok etkisiz ve çaresiz diğer platelere göre.

[Wispy]

Ben prot warrior rogue keser kesemez dediğimi hatırlamıyorum.
Prot warrior bleedleyip kitelayan, vanishleyen rogue u kesemez, kalanını keser diyim hatırın için
Shockwave+Concussion Blowu iyi oturttumu her türlü keser.

[Cons]

cuceye dedim la

[Wispy]

Bir de arms warrior etkisiz demişsiniz. 3v3 de ya da 5v5 de doğru anda Blade Storm açan Warrior gördünüz mü ?

Bende root snare hamstring falan yokken istediğin kadar bladestorm aç semazen gibi dönmekle kalırsın sadece.

[Wispy]

Abi cons'u cüce okudum ya.
31 aralıkta çalışınca böyle oluyormuş.

[Dynun]

bence warrior kalksın.

[axedice]

Wispy said:

Ben 5cp eviscerate koyacakken druide warriordan disarm çok yedim be cüce. Bu kadar mı rahatsız etti bir ability'i paylaşmak ?

Adam rogue emekçisi, eşitlik istiyor paylaşmak istiyor. Cüce de warrior sendikasının başındaki hain patron.

Hayır blizz kasmış böyle bi paylaşım yapmış, sen bi teşekkürü bile çok mu görüyorsun?

[xunn]

Wispy said:

Rogue'un dismantle'ımı rahtsız etti ? Ben 5cp eviscerate koyacakken druide warriordan disarm çok yedim be cüce. Bu kadar mı rahatsız etti bir ability'i paylaşmak ?

Eski riposte ayrı saçmalık değil miydi, aaa disarm yedim 10 sn sword&board takılayım 10 sn sonra zaten 2hand dönüp ağzına tükürürm rogue demeyi mi özlediniz.

Shield Wall aldınız arenada, arenanın her bracket'ında oyun döndürecek bir ability. Daha ne istiyorsunuz ?

Clos'um doğru düzgün çalışmıyor, spell hit artık 90% resist şansını düşürüyor. Vanish işe yaramıyor. Shadowstep interceptten her türlü daha kötü bir ability hem de trainable değil.

Her class'ın ağlanacak çok şeyi vardır eminim.

Abi ağlayan rogue görünce kıkırdama geliyor bana bir aklınızı başınıza devşirin. Vanish atmayı bilmiyor 2 roguetan biri. Havada ability varken atmıcaksın kardeşim vanish. Bugınızla yaşamayı öğrenemediniz yahu şu oyun çıktığından beri. 3 zehir geldi gökten zaten, üstüne dismantle gibi saçma salak bir skill aldınız. İhtiyacınız yoktu ki sizin dismantle'a.

Warrior'ın defensive stance'e geçmesi lazım disarm için. Sen ne yapıyorsun abi? Lol disarm, hemde armoruna kadar disarm. Bravo. Ne istiyorsunuz anlamadım ki, oyundan mı atılsın warriorlar?

Warriorlar stunda sopa yiyor, dismantle atıyorsun, sonra ölüyor. Skill share falan demeyin, komik oluyor çünkü.

[Wispy]

1- Defensive stance'e geçmek ne zamandan beri zor ? Warrior arenada ne zamandan beri rage sıkıntısı çekiyor ? Bütün oldschool kaliteli warriorlar DK rerolledi. Kalan scrublar'da healer'a pummel koyamaz, hamstring koymadan bladestorm açar hiçbir targeta vuramaz. Kendi beceriksizliklerini göz ardı edip ay class çok boktan roguelar çok overpowered, benim 2005 ten beri olan core ability'mi nasıl sen rogue'a verirsin 3 sene sonra ffs denmesi bayıyor.

2- Havada ability varken vanish açma mı ? O rly ? Hunter'a karşı ne zaman vanish atıcam ben ? Ya da bof lu warrior'a, Dk'ya rogue'a ?
Bugün üzerimde dot yokken 20 yd uzaktan vanishledim 1 saniye sonra DK grip attı. Mage'in mirror imageı hala destealthliyor ?

Blink attığında 20 yd yerine 2 yd ileriye git, iceblock attığında dot'ların üzerinde kalsın eminim ağlamazsın sen de evet.