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Heroes of the Storm [/join paticik]

ahmedinejad

Son yazan: ahmedinejad
yeri: MobA

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Laurelin Grand Master

Laurelin

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mmrin yuksek olmasida iyi degil ya 2600-3100 arasi sweet spot direk, bunu astimi senden daha kotu adamlarla ayni takima atiyor oyun seni cildiriyorsun

ranked sistemini izah etmis biri

said:
Hey guys chu8 here. Let me start off by saying that I've just went through last 3 days on an emotional rollertoaster playing in various party sizes from solo Q to 4-men stack Hero League.
From my observations, I've concluded that the current matchmaking system works against very specific type of players.
1. Players who have reached their peak in MMR
I must first explain how MMR works. You never really belong in a very specific MMR, but rather a range of MMR depending on how consistent you are as a player. Many factors come in here, how often one plays top tier heroes, one's mastery in individual heroes and how he/she distributes playtime among these heroes, physical/mental well-being at the time of gaming, external environment such as internet connectivity, how many socks he/she has lost to the washing machine that month, etc.
Let's say our imaginary friend Bob has an MMR range of 3000~3200. He has been around this MMR for many months after playing a thousand games, and will stay to be that way for many months to come, because Bob just likes to play games on his own pace, doesn't care much about improving, and is completely fine with that because that's just how Bob is. Well, for Bob, 3200 is his peak MMR. Bob is doomed this patch, because the only way he will climb ranks is if he can also climb his MMR, but he ended last patch on 3200 MMR! Bob is now forever capped at rank 4.
2. Players with super high MMR
Let's say it takes around 100 MMR increase in order to go from rank 5 to rank 1.
Jerry, whose pre-patch MMR hovered around 3000, landed on rank 5 after placement matches, he barely made it but he still made it. Now he has to become 3100 MMR in order to climb to rank 1.
Tommy, whose pre-patch MMR was around 4000, landed on rank 5 after placement matches, because that is the highest you can get after placement matches are done. Now he has to become 4100 MMR in order to climb to rank 1.
Even though going from 4000->4100 is much bigger challenge than going from 3000->3100, Jerry and Tommy are both doing the exact same climb from rank 5 to rank 1. In fact, even if they both make it, Jerry is rank 1 with 3100 MMR, while Tommy is rank 1 with 4100 MMR. Pretty ridiculous, but this is no different from how it used to be in the past anyway. There has always been a huge skill gap among rank 1 players in this game.
But what if Jerry makes it to 3100 MMR, while Tommy barely keeps 4000 MMR as is? Now Jerry is rank 1 with 3100 MMR, while Tommy is being called a rank 4 scrub by his friends while having 4000 MMR. Now this is injustice. Yet this is precisely what is happening right now.
Problem is, if you are super High MMR player (2nd category), it is also likely that you are at your peak MMR (1st category), and belonging to both of these categories can turn Hero League experience into a living nightmare (LiLi nightmare anyone?). I, for one, had a difficult time climbing to rank 1, but I believe it was possible because my MMR range is much bigger than others around 4000 MMR, due to the fact that I play a variety of heroes including the absolute low tier. For this specific climb, I tried my best to stay away from that tendency and stick to good heroes for the most part. Will I play more from here though? Maybe, maybe not. But for now I'm going to leave it as is and play on my smurfs, just so that I have bragging rights, and this is very important part of nerd culture and I happen to be a pretty big ass nerd.
I am fairly certain that this is just an experiment by Blizzard since we are still in preseason, and I do believe by the time season 1 hits, we'll have a better system in HotS especially once there's some kind of MMR reset and grandmaster gets implemented. But my god, this patch is a hell for some people, to a point where they simply will stop playing until a change is made.




said:
Chu didn't really explain it well. Let me see if I can provide some clarity.
If you are high MMR, probably anywhere within the top 500 players on the ladder (as most of these players don't play lots of HL - they're typically scrimming) you're very likely to be placed on teams where you are favoured to win (your average team mmr is higher than the opposing average team mmr.) This is by virtue of your team being guaranteed to have a high mmr player (you) and the pool of players to draw your teammates/opponents from being filled with players whose mmr is lower than yours. The result is that the vast majority of your games your team has higher average mmr and is the 'favoured' team.
Now, this interacts with the HL points system. Winning or losing an evenly matched team (average mmrs very close) results in gaining/losing 100 points. Winning as the favoured team gets you <100 points and losing as the favoured team loses you >100 points. Because you are almost always going to be the favoured team (for reasons I outline above) you are almost always gaining less than 100 points per win, and losing more than 100 points per loss. The net result is that for your point gains to outpace your point losses, you must achieve a winrate of significantly higher than 50%.
Because your MMR also fluctuates with your win/loss ratio, your MMR also moves similarly to your points. Not exactly the same, but similarly. This is where Chu's peak mmr point comes in. Players improving their skill and therefore their MMR will see win/loss ratios of >50%, which gives them enough point gains to actually climb ranks. Players already among the upper echelon of the ladder already play against the best of the best and there is virtually no way for them to achieve >50% win/loss. Even if they can achieve >50%, they still can't achieve a high enough win/loss to outpace the point gain/loss disparity I outlined above. As such they stagnate in rank.
This is why it's such a bad idea to reset ranks without resetting MMR (and indeed to have the two separate systems in the first place) because it highly, highly favours those in a scenario where their winrate can get high enough to outpace the point disparity. Those at the peak of their personal skill won't be able to climb ranks regardless of where their skill lies in comparison to their peers, and the best player in the region would struggle the most.


TLDR

ozet: Belli ranka ulasabilmek mmriniza bagli, MMRiniz bir kere sabitlendigi zaman blizzardin averaj %50 winrate pushlamasi yuzunden cakilip kaliyorsunuz.

elo single player oyunlarda guzel bir sistem, gercekten skillinizin artmasi lazim MMR in yukselmesi icin, atiyorum solo bir oyunda 2000 de sabitlenmis bir kisi %50 winrate ile oynarsa oldugu yerde kalir cuki %50 winrate onun orayi hakettigini gosterir. kendinden yuksek mmrli oyunculari yenerek ancak kendini yukseltebilir, kendinden kotu oyuncuya yenilirse mmri daha cok duser

takim oyununda bu boyle olmiyor cunki takim averajlarini aliyor oyun, yuksek mmr li oyuncular surekli o yuzden agliyorlar.

bizim gecen oynadigimiz oyunlarda misal takimda en yuksek ve peaklenmis mmr bende oldugundan ve takimin kalani benden dusuk oldugundan mac basi 3-5 puan geliyordu, kaybedince ise 13-15 indiriyordu, bine kere denildi hotslogs tahmini bisi veriyor diye ama maclarda belli oluyor bu.

benim mmrimdan bi sikayetim yok, hakettigim yerde degilim kotu basladigim ve ilk maclarimda nubliktan surekli kaybettigim icin, takimla oynarken guzel bisi bu cunki min 2600-2800 arasi olmasi gereken birine 2100-2300 muamelesi yapiyor oyun, her sekil avantaj oluyor

http://i.imgur.com/ZzM5G6v.jpg

not: baltazarla bu kadar zor bir oyunu kazandik diye portre/achievement veya en azindan gold vermesi lazimdi blizzardin T_T, yuzde 7 demi neydi bizim core kazandigimizda asfdafsd

bu durum ama solo girince cildirtiyor beni cunki sirf dota gecmisi oldugu icin ilk maclarini kolay kazanip mmrini bi derece yukarda tutabilmis aptal dolu, o kanser ruslar oyle denk geliyor iste.
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