beni destekler misiniz (en azından fikirlerinizi yazmanızı rica edicem :d )

[Dworgian]

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=5901610670&sid=1

inatla dire bear form un deep feral yapılmasını ve resto arena druidler yüzünden nerf yememesini savunuyorum da :D

[hozceri]

beter oluın en iyi druid ölü druiddir

[Dworgian]

:(

[janis]

" ayıdan post , druidden dost olmaz "

[endless_night]

druid oyuna en çok renk katan class bence nie herkez sallıyo :P

[mulgear6]

druid kadar iyi değilsiniz!

[BaaL]

beter olun. nerfin allahını yiyesiniz işallah.
yetmedi mi bütün tbc eglendiginiz ?
yüzsüz yüzsüz destek istemiş bide.
eshefle kınıyorum topunuzu.

[mulgear6]

abi afedersin de healerlık da bi süre sonra bayıyo biliyo musun?
tanklıgını nerflediler bosu bosuna simdi pvp yüzünden
raide girdiginde filan talentlar pve moduna geçse nerflenmese feral kısım pvp yaparken degisse filan ne güzel olur
di mi?

[NeL]

destekleyin beniiii !!!

destek istiyorum sizden !!!

sözleri geldi aklıma truvanın türkce uyarlanmıs versiyonundan :P:P

[FreEmoon]

iyide şuan druid tanklığının ne problemi kaldıki,gayet güzel MT bile olacaksınız işte.

Adamlar süper tank talentleri koydu parry yapamamaktan gelen extra hasarı kapamak için %12 bonus damage reduction talentide aldınız, crushda kalktı ki bu bile direk druid buff. Ayı formda Barkskin kullanmaktan (ki kendisi her dakika mini shield wall gibi birşey), pot çekmeye, use itemleri kullanmaya kadar her türlü şeyde eklendi. Daha ne gibi bir sorununuz var onu anlamadım ben.

[nihlathak]

Sorun tatminsizlik sanirim.

[scorch]

form deiştirmeden heal de atmak istiyoruz :D

[Dworgian]

Sorun pvp resto zibidileri yüzünden pve ayıyı nerflemeleri.

Alsınlar ayıyı deep feral talent yapsınlar mis cici oh be olsun diorum

Bi de Freemon şu post u bi zahmet kasıp okursan sevinicem :D

A feral tank is unique because.......

1) We have tons of armor, we take less in pure physical fights!!!
Nevermind, they cut our armor down to be on par with other tanks.

2) We can heal ourselves for 30% of our health every 3 mins. for 100 rage!!
Nevermind, they gave warriors the ability to heal themsleves for 30% health every 3 mins.....for 15 rage

3) We can charge...even in combat!!
Nevermind, they gave warriors intervene last year, but that was entirely to gimp, so they just made charge talented to be usable in combat....in any stance....oh, and they keep intervene.

4) We have thorns!!!!
Nevermind, this buff can be cast by any druid, and on any tank,,,,,,oh!! and they gave warriors a passive damage shield (something we have been asking for since pre bc) that does 3 times as much damage as thorns....and stacks w/ thorns.

5) We can slow mobs attack speed!!!
Nevermind, warriors have been doing that since the game was created.

6) We can faerie fire a target! reducing AP!
Nevermind, warriors have sunder....but that was too hard for them, so they gave them an ability that causes threat AND throws sunder on at the same time.

7) We have swipe!! the best AE ability for 3-4 mobs!! wait...they nerfed this in BC, and took away the threat bonus, then further nerfed it in WOTLK......
Oh, and nevermind, thunderclap is now causing 3 times as much threat as swipe, AND causes a debuff to the mobs. Oh, and they have shockwave.....an unlimited mob AE attack that stuns the mobs and causes threat. Did I mention they nerfed swipe? twice?

8) We can break fear!!!!
-every 3 minutes.....and when we do, we lose our "last stand" ability for 3 minutes.
-warriors have always had a fear breaker, and has a 30 second cd......and also causes incapacity immunity.....and causes extra rage. and....doesnt share a cd with anything else!!!

9) We have last stand!!! and its only a 3 minute cd!!!!
-of course when used, you also lose your fear breaker.
-and of course, warriors have this too.

10) When we use enrage, we get a 15% damage increase!!! and it's only on a 1 minute CD!!
- Just be careful, it reduces your base armor by 16%. This is about a 7% decrease in armor mitigation.
- And yah....nevermind, Warriors have this also, and although theres is only 10% increase,theres procs on ANY dodge, block, or parry.....so in other words it's always up, theres lasts 2 seconds longer, and has no CD.

11) We can simply shift forms and we break all snares! We control range like no other!!
- Oh snap, Nevermind, they added a snare immunity/removal effect to charge.....which can be used in combat. Now not only CAN wariors break snares, it's easier and safer for them. Hell, they don't even lose rage!

12) We add 5 % crit to the group!!!!
-yup....here it is.....the reason you bring a druid MT!!!! woot I found it. (I wont mention how warrs can increase stamina by almost 2k......or AP by 550.....)


Come on guys!! it aint that bad, I mean it's not like warriors are unique! What do they have thats so special?

1) Spell reflect
2) Shield wall
3) Disarm
4) shield bash (interupt)
5) passive damage mitigation.....that doesnt require people to be in your group :(
6) heroic throw (This one really aggravates me.....we get gimp old faerie fire, and they give them a silencing ranged threat builder. WTF)
HEH.....I'm not even to the talents yet.
7) silences, ranged and melee versions.
8) Group spell protection......doesnt even require additional button clicks.
9) Vindication (mini-salvation to 1 target, and refreshed cd's on taunt if they draw agro)
10) intercept/intervene reduces damage taken by the clothie your saving. and gets rid of snares

So....I mean there's only a couple things that warriors can do that we can't. And come one!!!! we can BR and Innervate!!!! while MT'ing......totally safe.

Now I know the protocol for QQ posts like these, if your gonna point out flaws in the game you think should be improved, it is beneficial to give some suggestions to the devs. But you know what? There are literally hundreds of threads, many of which I wrote, with example after example, and good idea after good idea.

The problem is, feral tanking is flat out not meant to be unique. We can dps, heal, cast, or tank. We are designed to be cookie cutter versions of other classes. Granted, Blizz is further forcing us to choose one avenue, and making it harder to be good in any other area than your spec, and has now even broke up feral into to 2 different "paths" I'll call them that because they arent totally seperate specs.

Even the abilities we did get this Expansion have been hand-me-down talents that are not new or unique in any way. They are exact duplicates of other abilites that other classes have, but watered down and made less effective. I am seriously just absolutely let down at this point, and I'm running out of optomism. I hoped and I hoped, I told my guildies and other ferals "It's OK man! every class has been through this" but I just see us creeping closer and closer to release, and we get a blue post saying they are "thinking about" making barkskin usable in bear, and adding threat to FFF. two improvements that have been asked for again and again since before BC. Lackluster talents at best that are gimp versions of heroic throw and shield block.

I don't want to be that guy that is crying "ZOMG!! blizz ruined feral!!!! zomg wtf blizz!!!".....
Instead, I am begging.......pleading even......please look at the pure playability of this class. Sit down and play a druid, as a tank, in naxx or any heroic.....then play a prot warrior. And tell me straight faced, look me in the eye and tell me you think ferals are unique and more fun than a warrior.

I've played feral since day 1 of this game, and loved it. even during the MC days of healing as feral, and being forced to pass on a "Quick Strike Ring" to a hunter, then the next boss being forced to spend my DKP on a healing only T1 item because that was my roll.....not by choice.
But I stuck with it. It was unique. It was fun.
BC did little to increase the playability of tanking, although the insane armor numbers were fun, and swipe was a blast in it's hay-day.
But other than the numbers, the button clicks were pretty dry.
Now with virtually 1 added button press, which feels awkward and just unusual (put warriors berserker rage and last stand on the same 3 minute CD, and see if they like it)
I just don't see how I can be excited to play this class, and more importantly as many have stated, I just can not fathom any reason no matter how good my playing is, how good my stats are, why in the world a druid would ever be wanted over a equally talented warrior. And I think as a tank, there is a great deal of pride in being wanted by a group or raid. Man, I loved logging in when we started clearing Mag and SSC, and my guild was elated I logged in!! "Knite!! hey man we need you!!" or...."yah man Knites tanking tonight, we got this"
These types of things make the game fun. make you feel down right good. Thats what I want from my Druid. Even now that we are in BT and starting sunwell, there is just no need for a druid tank. unless you just need a filler. I go each week, and a warrior or pally does the tanking with ease, and I dps. poorly. Then when it's time to flame tank, i go tank. Because I can do that better than the warriors. But when it comes to MT? My superior skill doesnt mean a damn thing when there's nothing else I can do besides cause threat. and pray my healers keep me up.

I just want feral to be unique. I want there to be a reason to take a druids besides pure numbers. I want to be involved and engaged when I tank. I don't want to start tanking, then literally watch TV as I spam 4 buttons non-stop until the thing is dead.

I want more. I am begging for more.



Note: I know some people may have doubted the thunderclap numbers....but I have a prot warr and a druid on beta, equally geared. My swipe is averaging 700 per hit/crit. for exactly 700 threat (theres no modifier) Thunderclap is averages 1100.....times 1.75 threat modifer, = 1925 threat. (700*3=2100)

[Regalya]

Dworgian spon gözümden yaş getirdi bi an :(

[Masquerade]

qq moar

[Dworgian]

Regalya said:

Dworgian spon gözümden yaş getirdi bi an :(

Ve hala "omg nerf druids ffs" diye yırtınan bi grup garip gereksiz insancık var.

Adamın 1 prot warrior 1 tank druidi var

karşılaştırmış işte

itirazı olan söylesin burda

[Jadelith]

bütün druidler ve roguelar işalla ölür.. oyunda :P

yannız, ne bilim druidlerin shapeshiftini roguelerin stealthini ellerinden alsalar bile hiç üzülmem. adamlar bütün bir expansion op idiler.

[Regalya]

Yanlız şuda var
şu an druidler rogulerin dibinde durudken DPS de expentionda roguelere en az 10%-15%(Kesin bişi diyemem çok deneme şansı olmadı) Fark takıyorlar yani bi yerden alırken bi yerden de veriyor blizz bence.

[Dworgian]

Regalya said:

Yanlız şuda var
şu an druidler rogulerin dibinde durudken DPS de expentionda roguelere en az 10%-15%(Kesin bişi diyemem çok deneme şansı olmadı) Fark takıyorlar yani bi yerden alırken bi yerden de veriyor blizz bence.

o kadar olabileceğine veya öyle bırakacaklarına inanmıorm :)

[Dworgian]

nihlathak said:

Sorun tatminsizlik sanirim.

spoilerı okuyup güzel mantıklı bi yanıt yazarsan daha iyi olur.

bilmiyorum tabii herhangi bir zaman bir druid tank oynadın mı.

veya hybrid oynadın mı.

komik gelmio mu benim healer tree min pvpde kullanımı op olmasın die tank tree min pvede kullandıgı en önemli formunun nerflenmesi


edit: typo

[FreEmoon]

@Dworgian

Adam süper yazmış ancak çok önemli bir hatası var. O da druidlerin düzenlenmesi bitmeden yazmış yazıyı. Blizzard zaten druidin özelliklerini hayli kısıp buna başka bir çözüm bulmaya çalışacaklarını belirtmişti. Druid için yapılan son ayarlama öncesinde yazılmış bu yazının her kelimesi harika tespitler. Ama işte o son düzenleme ile işler çoook değişti.

-Druidler %6 bonus dodge kazandı

-%12 damage reduce kazandıki bu zaten armorunun eskisi gibi yüksek olmaması sebebi ile kaybettikleri extra korumaya kapatmak için verilmiş çok daha iyi birşey. Çünkü druidler belki ilk başta armordan %75 alamayacak ama diğer tanklarla birlikte T9 seviyelerine gelince hem %75'e çok yaklaşacak hemde %12'de bonusu olacak.

-Barkskin artık bear formda kullanılabilek ki bence en büyük buffda bu. Her dakika %12 üstüne %20 daha az hasar alacak druidler.

-Ve en önemlisi crush kalktı, tamam tüm tanklar için kalktı crush ama ilk crit immune mertebesine ulaşan bir classın üstüne birde crush yemeyecek olmasından büyük buff olmaz bence.

İşte adamın yazsında olmayan tüm bu yukardakiler bir araya gelince druid eskisinden çok daha dengeli ve güzel bir tank oluyor benim gözümde. Evet mekaniği değişti, druid tank eskisi gibi değil. Yani best offtank değil, diğer tanklar kadar offtank, ama artık aynı zamanda diğer tanklar kadarda main tank. En ağır vuran single target bossu (örnek ilk bkarşılaşanlardan patchwork) en düşük gear seviyesinde tanklıyabilecek tank druid. Aynı gear seviyesinde en az heal isteyerek tanklıyabilecekte druid.

[Dworgian]

Freemon, Buna warriorlar tarafından qq gelmeyecegine ve nerf yemeyecegine inanıomusun? :)

Ayrıca o başlıkta zibilyon tane warrior bonusundan bahsediliyor. senin söyledigin kazandıgımız 2 özellik warriorlara verilen tüm o yeniliklere denk mi yani?

[Dworgian]

2) We can heal ourselves for 30% of our health every 3 mins. for 100 rage!!
Nevermind, they gave warriors the ability to heal themsleves for 30% health every 3 mins.....for 15 rage

4) We have thorns!!!!
Nevermind, this buff can be cast by any druid, and on any tank,,,,,,oh!! and they gave warriors a passive damage shield (something we have been asking for since pre bc) that does 3 times as much damage as thorns....and stacks w/ thorns.

7) We have swipe!! the best AE ability for 3-4 mobs!! wait...they nerfed this in BC, and took away the threat bonus, then further nerfed it in WOTLK......
Oh, and nevermind, thunderclap is now causing 3 times as much threat as swipe, AND causes a debuff to the mobs. Oh, and they have shockwave.....an unlimited mob AE attack that stuns the mobs and causes threat. Did I mention they nerfed swipe? twice?

8) We can break fear!!!!
-every 3 minutes.....and when we do, we lose our "last stand" ability for 3 minutes.
-warriors have always had a fear breaker, and has a 30 second cd......and also causes incapacity immunity.....and causes extra rage. and....doesnt share a cd with anything else!!!

9) We have last stand!!! and its only a 3 minute cd!!!!
-of course when used, you also lose your fear breaker.
-and of course, warriors have this too.

10) When we use enrage, we get a 15% damage increase!!! and it's only on a 1 minute CD!!
- Just be careful, it reduces your base armor by 16%. This is about a 7% decrease in armor mitigation.
- And yah....nevermind, Warriors have this also, and although theres is only 10% increase,theres procs on ANY dodge, block, or parry.....so in other words it's always up, theres lasts 2 seconds longer, and has no CD.

11) We can simply shift forms and we break all snares! We control range like no other!!
- Oh snap, Nevermind, they added a snare immunity/removal effect to charge.....which can be used in combat. Now not only CAN wariors break snares, it's easier and safer for them. Hell, they don't even lose rage!




bunlara bi cvp mesela

senin bilgin daha fazla gerçekten benden sonuçta :)

[FreEmoon]

Ben zaten denk birşeyler yapmalarını beklemiyordum :D. Ama şu an single target bossu (full spell yüklenen boss bile olsa, sonuçta bu %12 ve %20 damage düşüşü spellide etkiliyor) bence en rahat tanklayack class druid. Yoksa warrioların, her zaman en çok yeteneği olan tank class olarak kalacağına ben emin gibiyim.

Şu hali ile druid tank TBC'den daha iyi durumda bana sorarsan. Ki adamlar hala üzerinde çalışıyor. Glyphler falanda otursun. Swipe deli nerf yedi gibi görünüyor ama Glyph of Maul bu sorunu çözebilir. Yani şimdiden çok üzülmemek lazım, bence "herşey çok güzel olacak" :D.

Birde bence druide gelmesi gereken düzenleme, formlara 5 saniyelik bir CD'dir. Yani kediden ayı oldu diyelim, istediği zaman formu iptal edip insana dönebilmeli ama kediden ayı olduktan 1 saniye sonra bu sefer kuş-balık-moonkin vs olamamalı. Tekrar başka bir hayvana dönüşmek için 5 saniye beklemek zorunda olmalı. Tabi dire bearın feralin dibine koyulup sonrada ciddi bufflanmasıda bir çözüm ama bunu kabul ederlermi bilmem.

Edit: Şimdi bir üstteki postun cevabı basit aslında, druidleri sadece warrior ile kıyaslamak yanlış, onlar oyunun en çok skilli olan tankı sonuçta, ama nerdeyse her madde zaten diğer tanklar içinde sorun. Paladinde çıkamıyor feardan, yada spelli direk kucağına alıyor, snare konusunda en rahatı paladin belkide (ki zaten raidde ne snare'ı :D). Yani diyeceğim o ki, druidler kendilerini warriorla kıyaslamayı bırakmalı, belki DK ile kıyas bile daha mantıklı olabilir, ama warrior? cık olmaz o iş.

[Dworgian]

FreEmoon said:

Tabi dire bearın feralin dibine koyulup sonrada ciddi bufflanmasıda bir çözüm ama bunu kabul ederlermi bilmem.

en mantıklısı bu da bakalım işte